The saga continues... Time to get picky!
I want to stamp out every possible problem
that could happen.
Hooked up the preamp via 20ft xlr to trs
cable. From the test preamp it went into
a patch bay, then a 3ft cord, then to
MOTU inputs.
Used
Digital Performer to record the tracks
and measure the "noise" DP
registered in it's VU meters.
Gain position - Gain dB - VU meter reading
============================
1 - 0dB -90dB
2 - 6dB -90dB
3 - 12dB -90dB
4 - 18dB -90dB
5 - 24dB -90dB
6 - 30dB -90dB
7 - 36dB -84dB
8 - 42dB -74dB
9 - 48dB -66dB
10- 54dB -59dB
11- 60dB -52dB
12- 66dB -44dB
As you can see, noise started to increase
at the 8th gain position -74dB reading
for a 42dB of gain.
During my testing the other day, I did
notice the oscillation on the 5th, 6th
and 7th position which was reduced/eliminated
by the bypass capacitors.
But the 0.1uf bypass caps were ineffective
for gain position 8th and higher. ...
and it shows in the readings above.
-74dB is still not too noticeable, but
-59, -52 and -44dB are very high.
So I need to find a solution for this
and get rid of this problem. I'm thinking
a different value of bypass cap in parallel
with the 0.1uf may work.
So for now, Rev3.00 PCB is on hold for
manufacturing.
UPDATE
Incorporated some fixes. Added more bypass
capacitors to the volume potentiometer.
I think considering the volume pot
is connected up via hookup wires
instead of onboard the PCB is a contributing
factor to the noise problem.
Picked an AM station when the preamp is
hooked up directly to the RP8 monitor.
Didn't happen when the pre was hooked
up to the MOTU. Added another bypass
cap to the volume knob and that solved
the problem. Bye bye country radio!
Gain position - Gain dB - VU meter reading
- New reading
============================
1 - 0dB -90dB -90dB
2 - 6dB -90dB -90dB
3 - 12dB -90dB -90dB
4 - 18dB -90dB -90dB
5 - 24dB -90dB -90dB
6 - 30dB -90dB -86dB
7 - 36dB -84dB -84dB
8 - 42dB -74dB -78dB
9 - 48dB -66dB -78dB
10- 54dB -59dB -65dB
11- 60dB -52dB -60dB
12- 66dB -44dB -55dB
DP's VU meter readings are better... especially
at the 11th and 12th position. Oscillation
at the higher gain settings fixed too.
Just for some layman terms...
60dB is 1000x amplification of the original
signal.
66dB is 2000x amplification of the original
signal.
BTW,
without the preamp connected the
best my system can do is -90dB. So
the above -90dB readings probably
should be lower.
I still want to be able to push noise
lower for gain settings 54, 60 and 66dB
maybe down to the -78dB mark.
The
thing is since I'm using about 2" jumper
to simulate my selector switch, most
of the noise is coming in via this jumper.
I can tell because depending on how the
jumper wire is positioned, or if I'm
touching it, the amount of noise varies.
If I had a real selector switch soldered
in, I know the readings will be even
lower than above.
Another possible area where noise is coming
in is via the hookup wires that connects
to the external potentiometer. This piece
of wire then goes directly to the balanced
driver stage.
On Rev3.00 PCB, the gain selector switch
and volume potentiometer will be onboard
the PCB so we're talking about very minimum
distances, no hookup wires and very close
to the ground plane of the PCB. I don't
think we'll have this problem on the
Rev3 design.
So maybe I might go ahead and push to
manufacturing...
more update
I decided to plugin again the SM57, crank
the gain selector all the way to
66dB, and lowered the volume knob
since the SM57 doesn't really need
that much of a gain... hooked the
preamp directly to the RP8 monitor
and fired it up.
Better than yesterday and earlier today!
It is quiet. The volume knob pot is like
1/5th up and it is already loud, of course
considering it's at 66dB gain (amplifying
2000x) and no RF noise, no hum noise...
YES, at 66dB setting!
Noise measurements:
I'm a little bummed that at the 60dB and 66dB gain settings,
the SC-1 noise floor isn't lower than I expected. (@60dB,
-52dB improved to -60dB; @66dB, -44dB improved to -55dB)
So I looked around the net at other equipment specs...
There's a lot of mumbo jumbo out there... Some measuring
their noise with the inputs shorted to ground (which
personally I don't agree) and some not specifying what's
the volume level at (i.e. you can set gain to 66dB, but
if you leave the volume only at 50% can get a low noise
floor reading... deceiving don't you think?)
I found a Rane note (http://www.rane.com/note145.html)
that says GAIN should be set to maximum (I did that)
and the input TERMINATED with the expected source impedance.
(Oh oh.... I did NOT do that.)
So, I goofed up. When I did the earlier noise measurements,
I left the inputs hanging.
It should have been terminated with a 150-ohm resistor
to simulate a mic connected to it. So I got a spare XLR
jack, soldered a 150ohm resistor on pins 2 and 3, plugged
it into the mic preamp and measured performance again.
WOW! Big difference! Much better.
(This also explains why the other day when I hooked up
an SM57, it seems quiet and great, but when I checked
the noise floor in DP (with inputs hanging), the readings
were high.)
So here are the NEW and improved numbers!
Gain dB = Noise floor (Rs=150 ohms, Max Gain settings,
volume at max)
================================
0dB = -90dB*
6 dB = -90dB*
12 dB = -90dB*
18 dB = -90dB*
24 dB = -90dB*
30 dB = -90dB*
36 dB = -88dB
42 dB = -85dB
48 dB = -80dB
54 dB = -74dB
60 dB = -69dB
66 dB = -64dB
* Note: The best my setup can do is -90dB, so I cannot
measure anything below this.
** These are not EIN numbers.
And yes, the above values are at Max Gain, Volume knob
all the way to the right - settings. This is real-world
results, not theoretical calculated noise figure. This
is what you'll see on your VU meters in your DAW software.
So
this is the current score... we're at -64dB noise
floor at 66dB gain.... much better! Now, the challenge
is to reduce this further. But I'm just nit-picking
here.
Noise
Obsession
I've
been pondering this noise issue for
a couple of days now.
......
so last night, I'm trying to review
my design and reviewing the data
sheets....
I
*KNOW* I have the resistor values
for the mic pre stage I have were
computed for 0 to 66dB gain. Then
it goes to a servo, then to an unbalanced
to balanced line driver.... which
then goes to the MOTU inputs.
So
I'm thinking... maybe it's the line
driver stage giving me the noise
problem??? The 1510 chip.
So
I looked at the datasheet and something
caught my eye.... the line driver
stage ADDS ANOTHER 6dB GAIN!!!! DUHHHHH!!!!
Of course! Going from unbalanced
to balanced, gives you an additional
+6dB gain!
So
really, my preamp does not go from
0-66dB in 12 steps, BUT RATHER it
goes from +6 to +72dB gain!!!! (i.e.
66dB mic pre gain + 6dB gain of balanced
driver = 72dB total gain!)
So
the correct noise figures compared
to dB gain are:
| Noise
Floor at max gain settings,
max volume, 150 ohm terminated
inputs |
6dB
= -90dB*
12 dB = -90dB*
18 dB = -90dB*
24 dB = -90dB*
30 dB = -90dB*
36 dB = -90dB*
42 dB = -88dB
48 dB = -85dB
54 dB = -80dB
60 dB = -74dB
66 dB = -69dB
72 dB = -64dB |
So
there you go!
The
FINAL SCORE!!!....
-69dB
@ 66dB Gain with Rs=150 ohm terminated
inputs, volume at max 100%. Which
is about comparable to the RNP's
noise floor and other non-transformer
based IC mic pre design.
And
for the icing on the cake, mine can
go up to 72dB of gain, not just 66dB!!!
-64dB @ +72dB gain (which is 4000x
amplification!)
Not
bad!
Found an o